In the words of Warren Bradley: "It's not going to happen."

There are calls for unity across the local authorities but where is the incentive for a Wirral and Sefton contribution?

The sooner it is dropped and a strategy to extend Merseyrail is implemented, the better.

The two contributors above are both spot on. Merseytram is exactly the sort of system that Liverpool does not need and the Kirkby route is the least appropriate to be considered first.
In vogue at the time was the much vaunted statement that Liverpool could never be a premier European city without a tram system. This demonstrated that the scheme was driven by considerations of prestige rather than necessity and ignored the fact that several European capital cities have chosen to have underground rail systems in preference to trams.
Virtually all the attention was (and still is) being focussed on the capital cost of this ambitious scheme as if the tram would miraculously appear on the streets of Liverpool once the last pound had been pledged. No serious thought appeared to be given to the disruption some three more years of even "bigger dig" would cause or to whether the scheme was sustainable from a revenue standpoint.
This latter consideration was uppermost in my mind as I was Assistant Executive Member for Resources at the time and had done some research into the performance of existing tram schemes up and down the country with startling results.
In Manchester, Altram, running that city's Metrolink system declared an operating profit of less than £2 million with costs and interest running at £8 million. In the West Midlands the Midland Metro, also operated by Altram, reported losses of £16 million since opening in 1999 while in London, Tramtrack Croydon Ltd recorded debts of just under £100 million!
Passenger forecasts have been shown to be woefully inaccurate in many instances and can be even more so in a terminus configuration such as Liverpool, rather than the corridor configurations of other core cities. It is also a complete myth to think that people are going to abandon the convenience of a warm, comfortable car and walk to a tram stop in the freezing winter rain.
The Kirkby route, serving a number of areas along its meandering path, is duplicated by a convenient train service from Kirkby to the city centre which takes roughly a third of the time that would be taken by a Line 1 tram even though the tram stops are only every quarter mile.
Furthermore, the folly of assigning the tram to one entire carriageway of the dual carriageway that runs from Liverpool through Tuebrook to near West Derby and is completely clogged with traffic at rush hour, beggars belief.
As a Ward Councillor for West Derby, I have to represent the opinions of my constituents. Almost without exception they are outraged by the proposal to route Line 1 through a part of the city suburbs necessitating the felling of over 100 of the most beautiful trees that form the central reservation of Muirhead Avenue.
You might be forgiven for thinking I am totally anti-tram but that would be wrong. A line from the airport to the city centre would have had my support especially if it followed the banks of the Mersey without affecting the infrastructure of the south end of Liverpool.
Better still, the provision of a monorail link instead would really put Liverpool on the forefront of technology and restore, in a 21st century context, the much loved former Liverpool overhead railway.

Cllr Stuart Monkcom.

Jon G,
Liverpool has an underground metro system in the city centre and the centre of Birkenhead - It can be a lot larger quite easily and cheaply. The disused Wapping and Waterloo Tunnels run under the city centre. The Waterloo Tunnel's portal is near to where Liverpool Waters is proposed. The Wapping Tunnel emerges opposite the Kings Dock Arena. The disused Dingle tunnel has an underground station intact serving an inner city district which needs a big leg-up. The biggest cost of a tunnel, the cutting, is for free. Stations can be cut into these tunnel, one for the university and one for the Royal Hospital. A station can be at Byrom Street in the open cutting of the Waterloo Tunnel, which had a semi-station there in the 1800s. St. James Station is disused on the Northern Line at Parliament St. That is just the tunnels alone, that will substantially expand a city centre metro. Then there is completing the branch from Central Station into the Wapping Tunnel taking electric Merseyrail metro trains up to St. Helens from the underground city centre and over to Wirral if a line is justified. This was started in the 1970s and abandoned due to costs - the government was running out of money.

Cllr Monkcom:

The airport needs a full Merseyrail metro station not trams from South Parkway. To the south of Halewood station off the Liverpool-Warrington/Manchester line a branch can be run off across fields between the Jaguar factory and the Everton FC training ground, to the airport, leaving a station if need be at Hale. Trains from Warrington and Manchester can also use the tracks and airport station if two track curves are run off the line - one branch curve from Liverpool and one from Manchester. Then Manchester and Warrington city centre access to Liverpool airport - what we want.

Representing West Derby, which the mothballed Outer Loop Line run through, you would be pleased to know that the Outer Loop runs onto Halewood station, meaning direct access to the airport to all on the Outer Loop and beyond. The airport will be accessed by the Northern Line and the Outer Loop. Long Lane Industrial Estate was suggested by the Council for Everton FC - this is adjacent to the Outer Loop and a high throughput station could be built to shift 40,000 per hour. How did Liverpool FC get planning permission to build a stadium on a grade 2 listed park with any high throughput station adjacent -madness. In London the No. 1 criteria is a high throughput station, as at the Emirates and Wembley. Liverpool has a metro to shift fans FAST, yet is constantly ignored. Only in Liverpool.

See this thread, post number 173, http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198036&postcount=173where A diagram showing a suitable airport route and the Outer Loop running onto it. This is using existing lines and where new line, cheaply across fields. A monorail down the riverbank is difficult as it has to crass Garston Docks. Having a Merseyrail station trains from the Wirral could reach the airport without a change. - seamless.

No doubt Merseytravel will want trams to the airport to justify the white elephant South Parkway station, which will be by-passed if Merseyrail line to the airport is taken around the back of the airport from Halewood station.

The population of Liverpool has largely moved to the outer surrounding towns. Merseyrail serves a population of over 1.5 million and can give far greater network coverage. The city centre and inner-cities are being repopulated. The disused tunnels then will serve this population.

Common sense has to prevail and any clear face saving moves by Merseytravel ignored.

Jon G,
The Dingle station is desperately needed in that inner-city district. The tunnel originally was designed to extend inland to around Smithdown Rd. Look at:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Merseyrail-Extensions.html
This has a section on how an underground Circle Line is achieved, circling the city centre, by extending the Dingle Tunnel to Edge Hill, in cheap cut & cover tunnelling mainly across park. Most is in place and some section are ready used rail.
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Mesreyrail is a hybrid commuter rail/metro and the biggest and most successful outside of London. Parts are clearly metro like, parts commuter rail. It can be more of a metro by using the ready disused infrastructure.
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Liverpool does need a metro as the city is expanding and has plans for population growth. Also repopulating the centre where parts have disused tunnels under.
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Transport infrastructure promotes economic growth, especially rapid-transit. Ask London, Paris, Munich, etc.
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How to fund all this? Use Land Value Taxation (LVT), as Sydney did to fund the Olympics and many cities in the USA to fund transport infrastructure. When stations are built land prices rise around, they tap into this value - those who benefit most. It works.
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Your view that Liverpool & Wirral Waters will not happen is just your view. There is planning and the councils are involved on both sides of the river. This has to be taken seriously.
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